Author Topic: Conceal carry insurance?  (Read 8692 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SpecOpsDocRet

  • Gun Show Attendee
  • ***
  • Posts: 764
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2012, 08:29:52 AM »
Tone it down - only warning - Shipwreck (admin)

Maybe I missed something but WTH does this have to do with CHL insurance ? :thinker:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 08:34:15 AM by Shipwreck »
" You can die like a Tiger or live like a pussy "

Online Jeb_66

  • Administrator
  • Just Plain Scary
  • ********
  • Posts: 14659
  • Same S#! Different Day
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 09:20:02 AM »
Come on now, stay on topic and let's not go sideways.  What applies to all CHL holder is when ever we engage with our weapons we open the legal pandora's for both criminal or civil litigation.  Whether he's guilty or not he'll face a huge amount legal issues.  Again, these legal issues will apply to all of us CHL when we draw our weapons out and engage.

Agreed 100 percent. I can't imagine how expensive it would be, even if found not guilty or no bill or whatever.
Jeb
"Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"
Have you ever looked around at the group of people you are in and thought, "If the Zombie Apocalypse happens right now, this is what I have to work with."?

"...........Not that I'm into hugging dudes..........." 

Offline kdog22

  • Hits the Target
  • **
  • Posts: 347
  • Zombie Killer
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2012, 09:38:36 AM »
The reasons my wife and I signed up with Texas law shield are: They provide an excellent service should you have to use your gun in self defense. They give you an emergency number that will put you in direct contact with a lawyer 24/7/365. They will tell you what to say to the police right from the get-go and walk you through everything. ON TOP OF THAT, they immediately begin travel to wherever you are to meet you in person. They are basically with you from start to finish. I forget what the dollar amount was but they calculated that the average/minimum you will pay out of pocket if you go to the grand jury is $10,000. Since you pay monthly or anually for their service, you pay nothing extra for them to represent you through the whole thing.

In my eyes, as long as i can afford it, i'll pay for me and my wife to be covered should anything ever happen. $10,000 would kill me but i can swing the money spent on Texas Law Shield.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Thomas Jefferson.

http://themutineers.info/            :rocknroll:

Offline kdog22

  • Hits the Target
  • **
  • Posts: 347
  • Zombie Killer
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2012, 09:41:24 AM »
On a side note, they did give us their presentation in the CHL class. There was no pressure to sign up. Yes it was presented during the CHL class but lets be honest here.. You can be taught, learn everything that needs to be covered and then some, take the written test AND do your shooting portion and take CHL photos in an easy 4-5 hours. They throw that in alot of classes because it's an easy filler for the state required 10 hours.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Thomas Jefferson.

http://themutineers.info/            :rocknroll:

Offline texanron

  • Gun Junkie
  • ***
  • Posts: 916
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 10:33:45 AM »
Quote
CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE
CPRC CH. 83. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON
CPRC 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
You can not be sued in civil court if you actions were justified.

Offline kdog22

  • Hits the Target
  • **
  • Posts: 347
  • Zombie Killer
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2012, 10:50:08 AM »
Quote
CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE
CPRC CH. 83. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON
CPRC 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY. A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable.
You can not be sued in civil court if you actions were justified.

WRONG.

You can be sued for anything. Additionally, it's not up to you to determine if your actions were justified.
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" Thomas Jefferson.

http://themutineers.info/            :rocknroll:

Offline seniledavid

  • 5 Yard Shooter
  • **
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 10:56:16 AM »
Come on now, stay on topic and let's not go sideways.  What applies to all CHL holder is when ever we engage with our weapons we open the legal pandora's for both criminal or civil litigation.  Whether he's guilty or not he'll face a huge amount legal issues.  Again, these legal issues will apply to all of us CHL when we draw our weapons out and engage.

I don't believe that a Texas CHL holder requires "insurance" as long as he/she follows the Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal code and understands the law about using deadly force.
IMO, this is why I'd like to see other states adopt our standards, simply because it's clear in black and white with no room for vague interpretations.

If one is prone to illegally brandishing his/her weapon or feeling some false superiority over innocent law abiding citizens... then by all means, insurance is a great idea. For everybody else... put the money towards a gun to add to the collection.

Make dead... PERMANENT!

Online Jeb_66

  • Administrator
  • Just Plain Scary
  • ********
  • Posts: 14659
  • Same S#! Different Day
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 01:32:37 PM »
Even if you were justified in your actions (in your mind) you may still have to spent a lot of money to PROVE you were justified. That's what the "insurance" is for. You know that old saying about beating the rap, but not the ride?  Well beating the rap will cost you money.  And if they don't bring charges on you criminally, which means you've had NO jury SAY you were justified, someone could still sue you in a civil court because you don't have the defense of "being found justified.". Yeah you'd probably win, but still have to pay the lawyers to do it. There's a lot of reasons I think this is a good idea, and only one I can think of as maybe being a bad idea. 
Jeb
"Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"
Have you ever looked around at the group of people you are in and thought, "If the Zombie Apocalypse happens right now, this is what I have to work with."?

"...........Not that I'm into hugging dudes..........." 

Offline Ceejmo

  • 15 Yard Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1946
  • ἀνδρίζομαι
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 01:43:07 PM »

I don't believe that a Texas CHL holder requires "insurance" as long as he/she follows the Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal code and understands the law about using deadly force.
......................................

I disagree. Even if you are justified in your actions there is nothing that guarantees that you will not have to go before a Grand Jury. If you need legal representation the fees for that alone can be $10,000.00. There is already a senator in Dallas that is trying to introduce legislation that requires all cases involving deadly force, including self-defense, to go before the Grand Jury.

It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline jared

  • Ammunition Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 3861
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 01:50:54 PM »

I don't believe that a Texas CHL holder requires "insurance" as long as he/she follows the Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal code and understands the law about using deadly force.
......................................

I disagree. Even if you are justified in your actions there is nothing that guarantees that you will not have to go before a Grand Jury. If you need legal representation the fees for that alone can be $10,000.00. There is already a senator in Dallas that is trying to introduce legislation that requires all cases involving deadly force, including self-defense, to go before the Grand Jury.

So let me get this straight... Not only did the punk that cause the law abiding citizen to shoot the punk in defense, ruin their life by having to live with shooting someone, they FURTHER ruined it by now they have to pay outrageous amounts of money for defending themselves?? I personally believe the family of the punk who assaulted the CHL holder should have to pay the outrageous amounts of money, not the other way around.

Offline texanron

  • Gun Junkie
  • ***
  • Posts: 916
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2012, 02:39:32 PM »
CPRC 83.001 Clearly states that you're IMMUNE from civil liability. CPRC 83.001 was inacted to protect CHL holders from civil liability in the event that they were forced to use deadly force in a justified manner.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf
See page 63.
Could you still get called before a grand jury and pay thousands of dollars......absolutely.

Offline seniledavid

  • 5 Yard Shooter
  • **
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2012, 02:45:07 PM »

So let me get this straight... Not only did the punk that cause the law abiding citizen to shoot the punk in defense, ruin their life by having to live with shooting someone, they FURTHER ruined it by now they have to pay outrageous amounts of money for defending themselves?? I personally believe the family of the punk who assaulted the CHL holder should have to pay the outrageous amounts of money, not the other way around.

Without starting an uprise. I doubt what you described happened that way, there is compelling proof of that as well. We'll just have to see what happens in court.

Make dead... PERMANENT!

Offline Shipwreck

  • Administrator
  • Weapons Designer
  • ********
  • Posts: 20675
  • I am GROOT!
    • View Profile
    • Texas Gun Forum
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2012, 02:51:09 PM »
Lets stay on topic - the original topic. Thanks....

Online Jeb_66

  • Administrator
  • Just Plain Scary
  • ********
  • Posts: 14659
  • Same S#! Different Day
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2012, 03:43:16 PM »
CPRC 83.001 Clearly states that you're IMMUNE from civil liability. CPRC 83.001 was inacted to protect CHL holders from civil liability in the event that they were forced to use deadly force in a justified manner.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf
See page 63.
Could you still get called before a grand jury and pay thousands of dollars......absolutely.

I agree, but the point I was making is this. If you ARE called infront of a grand jury, and they decide you were justified, there can be no civil suit against you. BUT, if they don't pursue it and you never go before a grand jury, it's never PROVEN you were justified, meaning that you CAN BE sued in a civil court. The defense of "it was justified" would then have to be fought in a civil suit. See what I mean?  Either way it's only ONE case in court, but which one is up in the air. But if in either you prove you were justified it's case closed. 
Jeb
"Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"
Have you ever looked around at the group of people you are in and thought, "If the Zombie Apocalypse happens right now, this is what I have to work with."?

"...........Not that I'm into hugging dudes..........." 

Online Jeb_66

  • Administrator
  • Just Plain Scary
  • ********
  • Posts: 14659
  • Same S#! Different Day
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
I think Jared was meaning in general if that bill passed. Meaning even if the "punk" broke into your house with a gun and you killed him, you'd still have to go in front of a grand jury, costing you a lot of money.
Jeb
"Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"
Have you ever looked around at the group of people you are in and thought, "If the Zombie Apocalypse happens right now, this is what I have to work with."?

"...........Not that I'm into hugging dudes..........." 

Offline lightskye

  • Single Stage Reloader
  • ****
  • Posts: 1092
  • Not the face!
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2012, 04:55:00 PM »
You guys are making me wanna sign up TWICE with Texas Law Shield...  :th_thicon_lol:

Offline jared

  • Ammunition Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 3861
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2012, 05:01:25 PM »
I think Jared was meaning in general if that bill passed. Meaning even if the "punk" broke into your house with a gun and you killed him, you'd still have to go in front of a grand jury, costing you a lot of money.

I am just going to use you and Dom for translators lol y'all can understand what I am trying to say each and every time

Offline seniledavid

  • 5 Yard Shooter
  • **
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2012, 05:38:22 PM »
I think Jared was meaning in general if that bill passed. Meaning even if the "punk" broke into your house with a gun and you killed him, you'd still have to go in front of a grand jury, costing you a lot of money.

So, just so that we're on the same page.......

Let's take the incident where 3 teenage kids broke in a Missouri woman's house, she shot and killed one and the other two got away but were later arrested.

She is protected by castle law and no charges are to be filed against her.

- Where and why insurance is needed in this case?
- Is it because of fear of being sued in civil court by the dead kids parents?

if that's the case, everyone should carry insurance because anyone can sue you for just about anything and it will amount to expensive defense bills. However, the beauty is that you can counter sue them for court cost and attorney fees.
Make dead... PERMANENT!

Online Jeb_66

  • Administrator
  • Just Plain Scary
  • ********
  • Posts: 14659
  • Same S#! Different Day
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2012, 06:24:22 PM »
IF that bill passed then she would have had to go in front of grand jury.  REGARDLESS OF HOW OR WHY SHE KILLED SOMEONE.  Castle law or no, it wouldn't matter.  Now the Castle Law would have got her off the hook, but she'd still be there in front of a grand jury anyway. 

And if there was a general "Lawsuit Insurance" that would be a good idea there sir.  Seeing as how you have CAR insurance, and HOME OWNERS insurance, where does that leave me not insured?  Walking around in public.  What kind of insurance might I consider needing for this?  My GUN insurance.   :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol:  We didn't say that EVERYONE will need it, and I'd hope to NEVER need it.  But it doesn't make it a bad idea.

Let's take the guy who fired his gun as a warning shot at that burglar and got arrested.  http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/nh-man-stops-suspected-burglar-20120222

Couldn't have hurt then to have a lawyer well versed in firearm laws ready. 

How about the WWII vet that GOT CLEARED by the grand jury, but couldn't get his guns back? 
http://texasgunforum.com/index.php?topic=5774.0  <--------our discussion on the topic

Couldn't have hurt to have a lawyer on hand who knew the ins and outs of getting his weapons back after he was cleared. 

Want some more "examples?"
Jeb
"Keep your booger hook off the bang switch!"
Have you ever looked around at the group of people you are in and thought, "If the Zombie Apocalypse happens right now, this is what I have to work with."?

"...........Not that I'm into hugging dudes..........." 

Offline seniledavid

  • 5 Yard Shooter
  • **
  • Posts: 467
    • View Profile
Re: Conceal carry insurance?
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2012, 07:40:28 PM »
The key is: The legislature has NOT YET passed nor is there any guarantee that it will. Therefore CPRC 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY is in full effect.

Sounds to me that Walker, Rice & Wisdom, P.C.  with their "Texas LawShield" are making a killing $$$ off the fears of CHL citizens and taking full advantage of the situation of Trayvon Martin/Zimmerman in Florida, typical "ambulance chaser" type lawyers.  IMO, until something actually happens, I'm putting my money towards my AR-10.

Make dead... PERMANENT!